Episode recap:

In this powerful conversation, Marcel sits down with Joshua Freedman, a global leader in emotional intelligence and the CEO of Six Seconds, to explore the ideas behind his new book, Emotion Rules. Drawing from 30 years of research and more than a million emotional intelligence assessments, Joshua shares why he believes we are living through an “emotional recession” and what leaders must do about it. 

Joshua discusses how many leaders struggle with old patterns that no longer serve them, especially when moving from being a high-performing doer to a leader who must grow others. Marcel highlights two major shifts leaders must make: from knowing to learning, and from doing to being. The episode closes with a fast-paced speed round and reflections on what it truly means to lead with practical, actionable love in business. 

Guest Bio:

Joshua Freedman is CEO and cofounder of Six Seconds, the world’s largest  emotional  intelligence network. A pioneer in applying EQ to business and social impact, he directs  The State of the Heart study, a landmark longitudinal analysis tracking global trends in emotional  intelligence, which first identified the “Emotional Recession” – a sustained worldwide decline in emotional and relational capacities affecting wellbeing, engagement, and organizational resilience. His frameworks and tools are used by over a million people in 150+ countries, delivering measurable improvements in performance and culture.  

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Show Notes

Quotes:

• “There are no negative feelings. They’re all data.”
• “Emotions are great advisors but horrible bosses.”
• “Your feelings are here for a reason—your next step is to learn to trust them more.”
• “Maybe the struggle isn’t the obstacle; maybe the struggle is the curriculum.”
• “We must shift from knowing to learning, and from doing to being.” 

Takeaways:

1. Emotional wisdom goes beyond emotional intelligence—it’s the ability to use emotional signals to navigate ambiguity when there is no clear path or precedent.
2. We are in a global “emotional recession” where optimism, intrinsic motivation, and purpose are declining, yet higher EQ in these areas is strongly linked to better life and work outcomes.
3. All emotions are information, not problems; even uncomfortable feelings like fear or anxiety are messages about important needs and values that require attention.
4. Leaders often get stuck in old emotional patterns—like over‑controlling or withdrawing—that once helped them succeed but now block trust, growth, and empowerment in their teams.
5. Simple practices—such as choosing who you want to be each day and adopting a coach‑like, question‑driven approach—can transform leadership from transactional control to human‑centered connection and learning.

Timestamps:

00:00:02 – Introduction & Joshua’s Background 

00:04:11 – The Emotional Recession 

00:07:42 – Emotional Intelligence vs. Emotional Wisdom 

00:15:11 – Decline in Key EQ Capabilities 

00:18:14 – Fighting Our Emotions 

00:23:40 – Emotions as Data & Needs 

00:31:04 – Emotions as Advisors, Not Bosses 

00:34:24 – Patterns That Keep Leaders Stuck 

00:43:03 – The To‑Be List Practice 

00:46:22 – Wisdom Lives Within 

00:52:39 – Leading with Love 

00:54:39 – Final Takeaway 

Conclusion:

This episode ultimately makes the case that emotional wisdom is not about perfection or sentimentality, but about honestly listening to what our feelings are telling us so we can build more humane, resilient, and high‑performing lives and workplaces; when leaders stop fighting emotions, treat them as data, and model curiosity and courage, they unlock deeper engagement, stronger cultures, and a more sustainable way to navigate a chaotic world. 

The Book

Links/Resources: 

• Emotion Rules book: https://www.6seconds.org/emotionrules/
• Six Seconds – https://www.6seconds.org/
• Emotional Wisdom Wheel (Constellation Map): https://www.6seconds.org/emotionrules/wheel/
• Episode #191 with Joshua Freedman: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/josh-freedman-emotional-intelligence-and-how-to-use-it-to-get-results-ep-191/

Social Media Links: 

• https://www.linkedin.com/company/six-seconds/
• https://www.instagram.com/6secondseq/
• https://www.facebook.com/sixseconds/

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